I am here because I am at my wit's end. I have a wonderful husband who has some real issues with neatness. He becomes angry and defensive right away whenever I mention the problem. I love him but I do believe that this may ruin our marriage of 24 years. I think I was too easy going in the beginning and he has gotten messier. I only wish to live the rest of my life with a more organized home and be able to feel good about my life. We had a blow up on Thanksgiving so right now things are pretty good, he can try for a few weeks but then things go backward. I am not very particular, just want things reasonably clean and neat so that we can find things and I don't have to work like a maniac and wear myself out whenever we are expecting company. I would like to actually enjoy their visit too. He says I am overbearing. We recently moved into a very large home and he has taken over 5 closets. Each one is partially filled with clothes (dirty and clean) and clutter. I actually have to perform a search through the house for his dirty clothes. He will have nothing clean, yet nothing in is the hamper at times. He saves his clothing if he feels he can wear something another day. Well, it just stays where he put it and things become smelly. We have a 2 car drive under garage that is totally packed with clutter. Nothing is organized. We also have a SEVEN car detached garage and it is trashed except for the bay where I park my car. He has a wonderful antique Mercedes convertible and the top of the trunk area is littered with things. He has been using it as a table. As I mentioned, I am not that particular and when I mention these things to him, he points his finger back at me like an addict who is looking for justification. He will go check out my closets and office to find things out of order. This is going nowhere. He forgets where things are and buys duplicate items. I am afraid that this clutter will spread through my entire home and life. If it does I will have to leave.
This is why I am here. Can anyone help?
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Posted 2 years ago #
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Having a messy spouse is one thing (I am the messy spouse in my marriage). But a seven-bay garage that is full, along with closets, etc., may point to a greater mental health/emotional issue rather than just a tendency to be messy. Nothing is working probably because it's not getting to the root of the problem (which likely has nothing to do with clutter). Perhaps some sort of marriage therapy (to show your invested in solving the problem), which may lead to a good recommendation for a personal therapist with experience in hoarding/clutter issues...?
I'm not an expert by any means, but this sounds like professional intervention/help may be required in this situatin...
Posted 2 years ago # -
This is clearly not an issue to take to the Internet. This is something you and your husband need to talk to a professional counselor about.
Obviously, we're only hearing your side of the story, and he probably has some good points about things you need to work on too. Get some marriage counseling so you guys can learn to talk about these things without blowing up. Your counselor can direct you to more specific help if necessary.
Posted 2 years ago # -
seek a professional therapist.
this is something that requires behavior modification and perhaps anti-anxiety meds. pretending it is something you can deal with at home will just waste more years.Posted 2 years ago # -
Get a hold of the "Boundaries" series of books by Townsend and Cloud (they're psychologists / therapists in Irvine, California. The books will be a reminder of things you're trying to achieve and how by setting up good personal boundaries.
You may have difficulty getting hubby to go to counselling. If that happens, by all means still go yourself, read the books and get a supportive group around you.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Obviously you still love him, because you said wonderful husband! In that case, I would also suggest counseling.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Everyone, thank you. My husband has often offered to "move his stuff somewhere else" but I do not see taking the junk and moving it to another location as a solution. (You know, he can move junk faster than anyone I have ever seen)I do know there is something deeper, and I think that he is ashamed because he gets so very emotional. I will try to get him to a therapist and will buy those books. I think he will see me as placing "blame", but maybe if I go myself, maybe he will know I am worried about him as well as my own sanity.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Deborah, I can empathize with you to a good degree. My wife of 12 years and my 2 young kids are just, plainly put, messy people. They routinely drop their stuff any and everywhere (the entrance to our house is a nightmare of junk to wade through) and all like to collect pointless knick-knacks which are also found in every corner of the house. Believe me, I'm not OCD (you ought to see my clothes drawers - it would take a few hours to get them straight) but the constant degree of clutter and unorganization around here is slowly strangling me. I head home from work and dread stepping into the mess when I get home...I am really having to monitor my moods and relationships with them to try to make sure that I don't come across as a "jerk" as well. And with the holidays here, Christmas is hard on me because it's just Christmas clutter piled on top of our usual clutter! argh
Let me just say that they do have their great points and I love 'em, but I fear for my stress levels and emotional health putting up with this for many more years. I guess that is what Xanex is for, eh?
Peace to you,
XmanPosted 2 years ago # -
His pointing out any infraction by you (assuming you truly don't have anywhere near as much as you describe his amount of stuff) is a cop-out. It's likely that without outside help, if you had nothing for him to use as turn-the-tables ammo, he'd say that you're being a self-righteous prig. You will need outside support for your sanity.
That being said, try to keep in mind that you're on the same side and use terms that tell him this.
For example, "The amount of "stuff" on our property is unhealthy for us. I've found some useful tools to help me deal with some of my things; would you like to try them? If you have any ideas that you think would be helpful to me, could you please let me know?"
"we", "us" and "help" "some of" may come across better and have a better result than:
"Your stuff is driving me crazy; get rid of it all NOW."
I would also cease doing his laundry unless the dirties are in the laundry / hamper. In our house we let each other know if we are doing a load - it's up to the other people to get their stuff to be washed to the appropriate location on time. By effectively picking up after him you are enabling his behaviour. Treat him like a competent adult not a young child who is incapable of following simple instructions.
Oh, and like uncluttering your physical life, start small in the psychological/habit area. Deal with one issue (e.g. the laundry) and give it time to consolidate before tackling some other area (6 bays of a 7 bay garage).
Posted 2 years ago # -
Would it help if your husband thought about so much clutter being a fire hazard?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bless you X man. I wish life could be easier. Maybe you could talk to someone too. It feels better to know I am not alone. I know how it is when you reach that "point" and you cannot go on. Once I started throwing things out the window because I was tired of looking at a pile of empty boxes that had been in the corner for months.
I like your suggestions Laetitia, and I will try them. He does cop out. I have one closet for clothes and one dresser. Like I have said, he has his clothes spread out in 5 closets and he also has 2 dressers. He spreads into the guest bedrooms. And I hate that because that is more work for me when someone comes to visit. He even naps in the guest beds and gets them dirty. ARGH!!!
Fire hazard does not bother him, he would just think I am obsessing again.....Posted 2 years ago # -
We had another big blow up the other day. I have told my husband that it is therapy for him or divorce, and I mean it. I have decided that my well being is at stake and I would rather have a peaceful and orderly life than to go through this hell. He said he is having trouble finding a therapist for his problem. Can anyone tell me what type of therapist we need? I wouldn't think there any who specialize in this.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I did a quick Google search and it looks like the therapists who handle Obsessive-Compulsive behavior would be helpful, and can also diagnose underlying causes such as depression. In some cases there may be a need for medication, which involves the family doctor, if the therapist is not a psychiatrist (who can perscribe meds).
By the way, if he does not seek therapy, I would suggest that YOU go yourself. This can help you learn how to deal with the stress and decisions you are facing. It can also help you communicate better with your husband, no matter what choices you end up making.
Ann Landers gave great advice about this and I always remember her suggestion to ask youself "Am I better of with him or without him?" From your last post, I'd say you have chosen your path. Be strong, I am keeping you in my thoughts.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Deborah, by all means, I think that trying therapy first is the best course of action. But if it doesn't work out, please don't rule out separation or divorce. One of the biggest reasons that my ex-husband and I are no longer together is that we were fundamentally incompatible when it came to keeping our household clean, neat, and organized.
Divorce was hard and complicated and stupid on many levels. However, I am an immeasurably happier person and a much better mom now that I'm not having to deal with my ex-husband's habits any more.
It may make me an unpopular person to say it, but I do think that divorce is an excellent choice in a lot of cases where one partner is a "messy" or hoarder. (Certainly, make a real try at therapy first, if you can.) Life is too short -- way, way too short -- to live it with this kind of stress. Maybe you knew before you got married that your husband was this way, or maybe you didn't, or maybe you thought the situation would change. Whatever. The errors in judgment that we make when we first decide to get married shouldn't doom us to living in a dysfunctional household for the rest of our lives.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Deborah, if I was in your situation (which I don't know the real scope of just based on your few posts here), I imagine I would try to go to a couple's therapy together. This means I would not blame him alone for the problem but acknowledge that there is a problem that we both want to have solved in order to be able to live together. This is assuming that I still love him and that we both would like to make the relationship work.
Also, therapists working with couples can act like a moderator in a discussion, which might help in order to really get a point across that has just ricocheted off of each other before, so everyone can make themselves heard and understood. Any good therapist will be able to point you to a specialized therapist for hoarders (or trauma therapy, or depression, or whatever) if necessary. I would try this, even if we only went for a few sessions to figure out our next action steps together and just used the therapist as an external moderator/consultant/advisor. (Like Another Deb said, and I agree with her, if he doesn't want to go with you, you should definitely go yourself just to clear your mind and get advice on how to deal with this stress, and to choose your path.)
In Germany, there is a searchable database available online containing therapists and their specialities. There should be one for the UK as well? Keep your chin up, and good luck! :o)
@opadit and Another Deb, I think you make a valuable point. Sometimes you are happier alone than you are together, no matter how much you love the other person, and when there are children, I think they rather deserve two happy separate parents than an unhappy couple as parents. And especially yourselves: You deserve a happy you, too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thank you everyone for your help. We will try the therapy and see how that goes. Thank you for your understanding and advise.
Posted 2 years ago #
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